Derby #56: Your Favorite Element
+513

Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)

Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)
add a comment

Comments

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Thanks to everyone who voted for the previous version. I think I had to clean up some things that were irking me and brighten it up a little. I saw it on a darker monitor and realized it was a little too subtle. Thanks for any votes and revotes!

4Se7ens


quality posts: 0 Private Messages 4Se7ens
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


This shirt is the bomb.

...

suragor


quality posts: 1 Private Messages suragor
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


You've got my vote; however, I did like the previous version better...

shan24


quality posts: 3 Private Messages shan24
suragor wrote:You've got my vote; however, I did like the previous version better...

Oh man I wish I had seen it, because I think this one is beautiful. Very nice, T!

Andy47240


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Andy47240

theghotiman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theghotiman
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Is this based on Oppenheimer quoting the Bhagavad Gita, "Now I become Death, the shatterer of worlds"?

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

theghotiman wrote:Is this based on Oppenheimer quoting the Bhagavad Gita, "Now I become Death, the shatterer of worlds"?


Loosely based. That was inspiration, but I believe that quote was from Vishna. I opted to use Shiva instead just because he is known as the Destroyer and I really loved the statue this was based on.

mollib


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mollib

This is lovely. Your lighting effects are amazing.

illuminator


quality posts: 0 Private Messages illuminator
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


My favorite in the whole derby, hands down! I want the shirt!

GravityJMB


quality posts: 5 Private Messages GravityJMB
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


This is gorgeous. Bravo.

jackie31337


quality posts: 5 Private Messages jackie31337
4Se7ens wrote:This shirt is the bomb.


Argh!

Great shirt, though

eyeslikesugar


quality posts: 2 Private Messages eyeslikesugar
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Yay! I voted and a little while later, it's in the fog. I'm happy to help, as much as I can =) I love the changes you made to this and I hope it wins, because I'd love to own this.

-James Cho -EdgarRMcherly Shirt.Woot.Com - Ye Oldest Sucker - 2009

CAMMS


quality posts: 0 Private Messages CAMMS
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Very nicely done!!

WeezTheJuice


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WeezTheJuice
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)

idk how you do some of the things you do, but this is pretty awesome.

4Se7ens


quality posts: 0 Private Messages 4Se7ens
jackie31337 wrote:Argh!

Great shirt, though


Yeah.. I knew it was a groaner, but I had to... Shiva made me do it in an effort to destroy the maturity of the thread. Regardless, I do love the shirt and will buy it when it wins.
Aaaaarrrrrrrrrggghh!

...

illuminator


quality posts: 0 Private Messages illuminator
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


It's in the fog... woot!!! I want this shirt!!!

IgnatiusD


quality posts: 1 Private Messages IgnatiusD
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Wow, beautiful shirt! YGMV!!!!

Webfoot08


quality posts: 6 Private Messages Webfoot08
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


"For it shines self-luminous always..." -Krishna, from the Baghavad-Gita. Very, very nicely done. I will buy this one if it's printed, and I buy very few shirts here.

y7lane


quality posts: 0 Private Messages y7lane
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Shiva has many sides. To name a few, the pure one, the supreme one, the eternal one, though I think he prefers... THE DESTROYER! nice job tgentry, GMV

Discobiscuits


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Discobiscuits
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


glowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

82Chill


quality posts: 0 Private Messages 82Chill
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


WHat happened to the other shirt!?!?! I can barely see any of the detail! The last one complimented your style WAY better!

blammoed


quality posts: 1 Private Messages blammoed
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Wow, beautiful job! I love the glow, it looks perfect. Breathtaking :D

illuminator


quality posts: 0 Private Messages illuminator
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Noooooooooo!!! Go back to the fog!!! The tin men are taking over... wow! I really really really want this shirt...

bloczyns


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bloczyns
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


This is gorgeous, needs more votes!

brydesign


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brydesign
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Wow! I just noticed the integration of the bomb and explosion in the head dress. Terrific. GMV

GlassEggshells


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GlassEggshells
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


I wish this were fogged again. I was really looking forward to buying it.

krwdserfur


quality posts: 0 Private Messages krwdserfur
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Im in for one, I really like it :D

krouth


quality posts: 2 Private Messages krouth
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)

This rocks! You've definately got my vote.

dedo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dedo
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!! I need this shirt!!

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


I'm glad to have gotten the vote that got this back in the fog. I love your designs tgentry, hopefully it will pull up and get printed.

YettaNother


quality posts: 0 Private Messages YettaNother
brydesign wrote:Wow! I just noticed the integration of the bomb and explosion in the head dress. Terrific. GMV


That's the part I wish wasn't there. I don't know if I want to wear a bomb and mushroom cloud on my chest, even if they are beautiful.

mia3mom


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mia3mom
YettaNother wrote:That's the part I wish wasn't there. I don't know if I want to wear a bomb and mushroom cloud on my chest, even if they are beautiful.


agreed YettaNother.

Much as I love the detail work that tgentry has done, and much as I adore the other shirts I have that he has designed, I don't think I could wear this one. I know I couldn't wear a bomb shirt either. Maybe I'm too much of a softie pacifist. :P

& the Gaggle of Girls; so many shirts, so little space in the dresser!

uhhuhhuhhuh


quality posts: 0 Private Messages uhhuhhuhhuh
YettaNother wrote:That's the part I wish wasn't there. I don't know if I want to wear a bomb and mushroom cloud on my chest, even if they are beautiful.


I don't mind the bomb, but my Buddhist friend was offended. He said the picture is actually of Tara who's like a god of prosperity. Also that the green color makes it a variation that means enlightenment or something, so the bomb and calling her Shiva was "like spitting on a crucifix" to a Christian (his words).

I guess it doesn't matter if you're not Buddhist though. I'm not, and I'd wear it!

GlassEggshells


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GlassEggshells
uhhuhhuhhuh wrote:I don't mind the bomb, but my Buddhist friend was offended. He said the picture is actually of Tara who's like a god of prosperity. Also that the green color makes it a variation that means enlightenment or something, so the bomb and calling her Shiva was "like spitting on a crucifix" to a Christian (his words).

I guess it doesn't matter if you're not Buddhist though. I'm not, and I'd wear it!



Tara:


Shiva:


Tgentry's:


REALLY hard to tell if it is Tara or not. Either way, I'm not Buddhist, and I'd wear it too.

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

uhhuhhuhhuh wrote:I don't mind the bomb, but my Buddhist friend was offended. He said the picture is actually of Tara who's like a god of prosperity. Also that the green color makes it a variation that means enlightenment or something, so the bomb and calling her Shiva was "like spitting on a crucifix" to a Christian (his words).

I guess it doesn't matter if you're not Buddhist though. I'm not, and I'd wear it!


What exactly about this is specific to Tara instead of Shiva? I'm curious because A) I'd hate to think I actually offended someone and B) All of the sculptures of both Shiva and Tara that I've seen all look very different from one another.

Here's a Shiva sculpture similar to the one I based this picture on.

And another one that's very similar that says it's a Tara sculpture.

Anyone know anything more about this? Can it be either/or or is someone mistaken?

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


After a bunch of Internet scouring I've found a lot more examples of Green Tara that look like this than Shiva. While this particular design may be associated with Shiva by some, it looks more often like Green Tara, and as uhhuhhuhhuh noted the association of an atomic bomb with enlightenment is not exactly what I was aiming for. With that in mind I'm going to email Joel to pull this. Thanks for all the support on it and thanks to uhhuhhuhhuh for pointing this out. I'd much rather pull it now than have it print and be the guy that completely got someone's religion wrong on a shirt.

eyeslikesugar


quality posts: 2 Private Messages eyeslikesugar
tgentry wrote:After a bunch of Internet scouring I've found a lot more examples of Green Tara that look like this than Shiva. While this particular design may be associated with Shiva by some, it looks more often like Green Tara, and as uhhuhhuhhuh noted the association of an atomic bomb with enlightenment is not exactly what I was aiming for. With that in mind I'm going to email Joel to pull this. Thanks for all the support on it and thanks to uhhuhhuhhuh for pointing this out. I'd much rather pull it now than have it print and be the guy that completely got someone's religion wrong on a shirt.


D= !! They both look similar. Don't pull it.

-James Cho -EdgarRMcherly Shirt.Woot.Com - Ye Oldest Sucker - 2009

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

eyeslikesugar wrote:D= !! They both look similar. Don't pull it.


I think I'd really need someone's expert, unbiased opinion on it to keep it in, and I really don't know where to get that.

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

tgentry wrote:After a bunch of Internet scouring I've found a lot more examples of Green Tara that look like this than Shiva. While this particular design may be associated with Shiva by some, it looks more often like Green Tara, and as uhhuhhuhhuh noted the association of an atomic bomb with enlightenment is not exactly what I was aiming for. With that in mind I'm going to email Joel to pull this. Thanks for all the support on it and thanks to uhhuhhuhhuh for pointing this out. I'd much rather pull it now than have it print and be the guy that completely got someone's religion wrong on a shirt.

No no no no no! I love this design. *pout*

Though I understand your reasoning. I wanted one anyway... T_T;

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

Patchitect


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Patchitect
tgentry wrote:After a bunch of Internet scouring I've found a lot more examples of Green Tara that look like this than Shiva. While this particular design may be associated with Shiva by some, it looks more often like Green Tara, and as uhhuhhuhhuh noted the association of an atomic bomb with enlightenment is not exactly what I was aiming for. With that in mind I'm going to email Joel to pull this. Thanks for all the support on it and thanks to uhhuhhuhhuh for pointing this out. I'd much rather pull it now than have it print and be the guy that completely got someone's religion wrong on a shirt.


Wow..... a shame, i'd feel fine losing to yours over some other options. but i respect your integrity.. Hope to see a reworked version on threadless or DBH sometime.

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

tgentry wrote:I think I'd really need someone's expert, unbiased opinion on it to keep it in, and I really don't know where to get that.

I have a degree in East Asian studies and studied Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, etc. art and culture for five years. Does that count? I think this could go either way. Those two often look similar to me (always have), depending on where they came from. If you look at Indian art vs versions from other countries they're often different. That being said, I think this could be either. Those who feel this is Tara obviously won't buy it. But I think most people would agree it looks like Shiva. If nothing else, it captures the ambiguity that is Shiva. He is, after all, a composite with many facets.

But it's obvious I'm biased, so I guess that's not what you were looking for...

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

superspryte wrote:I have a degree in East Asian studies and studied Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, etc. art and culture for five years. Does that count? I think this could go either way. Those two often look similar to me (always have), depending on where they came from. If you look at Indian art vs versions from other countries they're often different. That being said, I think this could be either. Those who feel this is Tara obviously won't buy it. But I think most people would agree it looks like Shiva. If nothing else, it captures the ambiguity that is Shiva. He is, after all, a composite with many facets.

But it's obvious I'm biased, so I guess that's not what you were looking for...


Thanks Spryte, that does help. I think in this case I would rather err on the side of caution than have something printed that I'd really regret later on. Maybe not regret on the level of, say, Dragontine's Day, but regret nonetheless. Thanks again for the expert view. ;)

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

tgentry wrote:Thanks Spryte, that does help. I think in this case I would rather err on the side of caution than have something printed that I'd really regret later on. Maybe not regret on the level of, say, Dragontine's Day, but regret nonetheless. Thanks again for the expert view. ;)

Hey! I liked Dragontine's Day. The dragon is so cute...I wear it all the time... Maybe I like it because it was a gift. I dunno. Did I just kill my credibility? >_<;

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

Solsburyhill


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Solsburyhill
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


I'm a Buddhist, and I voted for this shirt. It didn't occur to me that this looked like green Tara; the face looks masculine to me. I thought you had copied a Nepali statue of Shiva (and done a beautiful job, by the way). I've seen green depictions of Shiva... Perhaps the thing to do would be to ask a Hindu whether or not the wrathful aspect of Shiva is ever done in green. If so, you've got perfect authenticity and are good to go.

Solsburyhill


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Solsburyhill
tgentry wrote:What exactly about this is specific to Tara instead of Shiva? I'm curious because A) I'd hate to think I actually offended someone and B) All of the sculptures of both Shiva and Tara that I've seen all look very different from one another.

Here's a Shiva sculpture similar to the one I based this picture on.

And another one that's very similar that says it's a Tara sculpture.

Anyone know anything more about this? Can it be either/or or is someone mistaken?


The White Tara mask in this link has a third eye in the middle of the forehead. In the traditional iconography, White Tara has seven eyes: three on the face, two on the hands, and two on the feet. But she is best recognized by her mudras (hand positions), which are the same as for Green Tara (described in next paragraph), except that she generally holds two lotus flowers instead of one. White Tara sits fully cross-legged.

Green Tara is generally not depicted with seven eyes. She is identifiable as Tara based upon her mudras: the left hand holds a lotus flower at the heart center (stem is between thumb and ring finger), while the right hand rests on her knee (with thumb and ring finger joined). Unlike White Tara, Green Tara is depicted as sitting with one leg extended.

I don't know anything at all about Shiva's identifying characteristics. I'm sure there are standards in the Hindu iconography, though, and asking a Hindu would likely clear it up.

bvillarreal


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bvillarreal
tgentry wrote:Thanks Spryte, that does help. I think in this case I would rather err on the side of caution than have something printed that I'd really regret later on. Maybe not regret on the level of, say, Dragontine's Day, but regret nonetheless. Thanks again for the expert view. ;)


Your design is beautifully done and with a few minor adjustments could be iconographically acurate and unoffensive. I'm not an expert, but know a little about comparative religion and iconography - I believe that Shiva is associated chiefly with Hinduism and is usually depicted with matted hair piled on his head, with a third eye, and sometimes with more than two hands. He is sometimes adorned with a snake draped over his shoulders - and sometimes has a blue throat because legend has it that he swallowed the poison that emanated from the Ganges and saved mankind.
Tara was associated with Hinuism in the form of the goddess Parvati - but she was adopted by Buddhism around the 6th Century. She is one of the most venerated Buddhist Deities, especially in Tibet. She is usually depicted adorned with jewels, and with an either open or closed lotus blossom depending on which manifestation of Tara she is. She usually has voluminous hair and elaborate adornments of a bodhisattva - which means selfless and heroic.

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

bvillarreal wrote:Your design is beautifully done and with a few minor adjustments could be iconographically acurate and unoffensive. I'm not an expert, but know a little about comparative religion and iconography - I believe that Shiva is associated chiefly with Hinduism and is usually depicted with matted hair piled on his head, with a third eye, and sometimes with more than two hands. He is sometimes adorned with a snake draped over his shoulders - and sometimes has a blue throat because legend has it that he swallowed the poison that emanated from the Ganges and saved mankind.
Tara was associated with Hinuism in the form of the goddess Parvati - but she was adopted by Buddhism around the 6th Century. She is one of the most venerated Buddhist Deities, especially in Tibet. She is usually depicted adorned with jewels, and with an either open or closed lotus blossom depending on which manifestation of Tara she is. She usually has voluminous hair and elaborate adornments of a bodhisattva - which means selfless and heroic.


Thanks guys for all the info and advice. The best I can figure is it still could go either way. I tattled on the entry, I'll leave it up for the woot guys to decide what they think is best. It's highly likely it won't make it to print anyway.

mia3mom


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mia3mom
tgentry wrote:Thanks guys for all the info and advice. The best I can figure is it still could go either way. I tattled on the entry, I'll leave it up for the woot guys to decide what they think is best. It's highly likely it won't make it to print anyway.


I'll disagree about the making it to print - spots 3-5 are really really tight right now.

But I am incredibly impressed with your character, gentry, and your willingness to do the right thing.

I look forward to voting for another of your beautiful designs next derby!

& the Gaggle of Girls; so many shirts, so little space in the dresser!

toe2254


quality posts: 0 Private Messages toe2254
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


i have been in awe of this design since you first posted it. it is the best design IMO you have done since i started entering the derby. i can't see how anyone could mistake this as anyone but Shiva given Oppenheimer's famous quote and the design's dominate theme of Plutonium.

klswoot


quality posts: 0 Private Messages klswoot
toe2254 wrote:i have been in awe of this design since you first posted it. it is the best design IMO you have done since i started entering the derby. i can't see how anyone could mistake this as anyone but Shiva given Oppenheimer's famous quote and the design's dominate theme of Plutonium.


For what it's worth, I agree with Toe. I love this design (and I'm usually adamantly against weapons/bombs/explosions, etc. on a shirt.)

I think upon first glance, it's possible to mistake the image for Green Tara....but mainly because of the color of the design and the jeweled headdress. Upon closer inspection, you can see the serpent details on the side, the more masculine hands and facial features and with the underlying theme of Plutonium, the link to Shiva seems abundantly clear.

It would be a shame to see this one pulled so late in the derby...but I can also understand your desire to depict one's religion accurately. Here's hoping you get the information you need from someone 'in the know'.

illuminator


quality posts: 0 Private Messages illuminator
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


This back and forth is killing me, you need to stay in the fog! *sigh* I'm just not going to look anymore until it's all done... *closes eyes*
...
*peeking*

uhhuhhuhhuh


quality posts: 0 Private Messages uhhuhhuhhuh

Whoa. I still don't have internet in the new house, so I just saw all of this drama at work right now.

I certainly didn't mean to cause such a fuss about this shirt. I fully believe that artistic license and the artist's intentions trump what ONE person out of hundreds will interpret. I was seriously just responding to the comment about the bomb and meant no ill will towards tgentry or his submission.

I have absolutely no knowledge of any religion other than my own (don't really know too much about that one either). I showed a buddy of mine my shirt at work the other day and he saw your entry. If I'm honest, I kinda didn't want him to see any but mine in case he decided to buy something and vote (hehe). He only clicked through for the details because he wanted to see how elements could be incorporated to an icon he thought to be Tara. Everybody else I showed (about 20 people) just thought it was a cool design and went with the description.

That being said, I think taking this down would be rash and totally unnecessary. I apologize for all the mess I stirred up gentry, I really didn't think anything of it when I posted. It's a fantastic design (as usual) and you deserve to stay at the top.

thatrobert


quality posts: 26 Private Messages thatrobert

gtrucker


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gtrucker
tgentry wrote:What exactly about this is specific to Tara instead of Shiva? I'm curious because A) I'd hate to think I actually offended someone and B) All of the sculptures of both Shiva and Tara that I've seen all look very different from one another.

Here's a Shiva sculpture similar to the one I based this picture on.

And another one that's very similar that says it's a Tara sculpture.

Anyone know anything more about this? Can it be either/or or is someone mistaken?


Someone sent me this question. I think anyone who owns or is familiar with this would be thinking that it should be Tara and would be suprised when it was not as they expected.

Syrinx16


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Syrinx16
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


I've studied Buddhism... and googled some pictures just to be sure, but this looks like Shiva to me. There are definite similarities though so maybe it's the green color that threw anyone off. But Shiva is clearly "the destroyer" so it makes perfect sense to me. I love this shirt and voted and I would definitely get it if it makes it! It's the only one I've seen on here that I would buy actually.

krouth


quality posts: 2 Private Messages krouth
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)

Cool, you're back in the fog! I'm really glad you didn't pull this shirt - it is the best design I've seen in awhile.

illuminator


quality posts: 0 Private Messages illuminator
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Stayed in the fog! w00t! Congrats!!! I'm sure you'll get printed again... 'cause I WANT ONE!!! :D

krouth


quality posts: 2 Private Messages krouth

illuminator


quality posts: 0 Private Messages illuminator
illuminator wrote:Stayed in the fog! w00t! Congrats!!! I'm sure you'll get printed again... 'cause I WANT ONE!!! :D


(???) It was up there when the derby ended... I saw it!!!

mlovesr


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mlovesr
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)


Tgentry, I'm so sorry this didn't make it. It's such a beautiful design and deserves to be printed.

njsrikar


quality posts: 0 Private Messages njsrikar
tgentry wrote:Loosely based. That was inspiration, but I believe that quote was from Vishna. I opted to use Shiva instead just because he is known as the Destroyer and I really loved the statue this was based on.


Great design der TG.....

btw...dats not vishna...its Vishnu .

And...is der a way i can buy this shirt ???

Harbinger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Harbinger
Re: Plutonium: Shiva's Plaything (v2)

I'm sorry this one slipped out. It was in the fog the last time I looked and was the one shirt in this derby that I would have bought. Oh well...

More Derby Entries

By date:

By rank:

Thumbnail