Derby #240: Take THAT, Ninja!

The Rusty Hook

No clip art

Rejected because: No clip art

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lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
Re: The Rusty Hook


Arrrrr!

tarmawolf


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tarmawolf

This is another one, that while funny, still has the main element of a text design.

shikausstan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages shikausstan
Re: The Rusty Hook


I love the "Only a buck an ear," very cleaver.

panpear


quality posts: 3 Private Messages panpear
Re: The Rusty Hook


+1 for the last pun alone. Ahahaha, puns.

jvcline


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jvcline
Re: The Rusty Hook


Agreeing with tarmawolf, like other top submissions while being humorous it's still a submission that prioritizes the text over the art, which, to me, is clearly disregarding the rules. :\

stingray69


quality posts: 4 Private Messages stingray69
jvcline wrote:Agreeing with tarmawolf, like other top submissions while being humorous it's still a submission that prioritizes the text over the art, which, to me, is clearly disregarding the rules. :\


Does this design have a graphical element? Clearly. So what's the problem?

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
jvcline wrote:Agreeing with tarmawolf, like other top submissions while being humorous it's still a submission that prioritizes the text over the art, which, to me, is clearly disregarding the rules. :\


The rules say: "No text only designs. You must have a graphical element."

In the past, the "graphical element" has been interpreted to be something as simple as a big dot.

See http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=57539 for an example.

jvcline


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jvcline
stingray69 wrote:Does this design have a graphical element? Clearly. So what's the problem?


If I go by that, I could submit a shirt that has three paragraphs worth of a poem, and doodle a Godzilla at the bottom and it would conform to what you consider a 'graphical element'.

runnerfrog13


quality posts: 10 Private Messages runnerfrog13
jvcline wrote:If I go by that, I could submit a shirt that has three paragraphs worth of a poem, and doodle a Godzilla at the bottom and it would conform to what you consider a 'graphical element'.

Pretty much. See this for a good explanation of why:

cdrewlow wrote:Woot has different levels of text allowed depending on the derby.
Some derbies are "no text allowed", which means, well, no text at all, not even symbols like "!" or "*".
Some derbies are "incidental text only", which means you can have text, but it the main focus of has to be graphic, and you can't rely on the text to make your selling point.
Some derbies, like this one, are "no text only", which means you can have all the text you want, and that text can be the focus of the shirt, it just needs to have a graphic element of some sort in it.
Hopefully this made sense.

Yourkiddingright


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Yourkiddingright
Re: The Rusty Hook


Wow man, really just wow, this really looks familiar...

Next time try not to be so blatant about using art you didn't draw and then filling it with some crappy jokes.



lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
Yourkiddingright wrote:Wow man, really just wow, this really looks familiar...

Next time try not to be so blatant about using art you didn't draw and then filling it with some crappy jokes.

Sorry you don't like the jokes (which I did come up with, along w/ the concept), and yes, I did use a clipped medallion (which I altered in another derby, as well) that is free for commercial use (from a standard bundle w/ Illustrator).

My understanding of the policy of clip art usage is that it can't be the only graphic involved, and it should be integrated into the work, as a whole. I only had a couple of hours available for this week's derby work, so I had to go fast, instead of starting everything from scratch. I can point you to a number of winning entries from the past few months that integrated royalty-free, commercially available graphics into them.

Yes, I normally like to create my own, but real life sometimes gets into the way between noon Thursday and Friday and I integrate "clip art".

Sorry.

[Edit: I can see at least one, if not two, other shirts in the fog with royalty-free art in them, as well. Technically, I'm guessing most of the text you see in this Derby (and other text-related derbies) is also of the "art you didn't draw" variety. I do try to be careful to use fonts that are "royalty free" for commercial use.

Most artists reuse elements - their own and ones they got from other sources (hopefully royalty-free sources, or with permission of the artists) - and it takes awhile to build up your own library of elements. If you submit "daily" shirts to shirt.woot, they ask you for links to any commercial art or photos you've used directly or indirectly. It's not verboten, they just ask to check your sources.

Again, I'm not trying to "fool" anyone, anymore that the other artists here than occasionally use royalty-free elements. My apologies if you thought I was.

seakitty


quality posts: 0 Private Messages seakitty
Re: The Rusty Hook


Hilarious! I love the surgery offering!

seakitty


quality posts: 0 Private Messages seakitty
Yourkiddingright wrote:Wow man, really just wow, this really looks familiar...


Lighten up, man, it's a T-shirt for gosh sakes. And I think it's a riot.

Yourkiddingright


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Yourkiddingright
lyonscc wrote:Sorry you don't like the jokes (which I did come up with, along w/ the concept), and yes, I did use a clipped medallion (which I altered in another derby, as well) that is free for commercial use (from a standard bundle w/ Illustrator).

My understanding of the policy of clip art usage is that it can't be the only graphic involved, and it should be integrated into the work, as a whole. I only had a couple of hours available for this week's derby work, so I had to go fast, instead of starting everything from scratch. I can point you to a number of winning entries from the past few months that integrated royalty-free, commercially available graphics into them.

Yes, I normally like to create my own, but real life sometimes gets into the way between noon Thursday and Friday and I integrate "clip art".

Sorry.

[Edit: I can see at least one, if not two, other shirts in the fog with royalty-free art in them, as well. Technically, I'm guessing most of the text you see in this Derby (and other text-related derbies) is also of the "art you didn't draw" variety. I do try to be careful to use fonts that are "royalty free" for commercial use.

Most artists reuse elements - their own and ones they got from other sources (hopefully royalty-free sources, or with permission of the artists) - and it takes awhile to build up your own library of elements. If you submit "daily" shirts to shirt.woot, they ask you for links to any commercial art or photos you've used directly or indirectly. It's not verboten, they just ask to check your sources.

Again, I'm not trying to "fool" anyone, anymore that the other artists here than occasionally use royalty-free elements. My apologies if you thought I was.


First off no Woot has not printed any in the 6 months or more with stock art (go check on shirtwhat.com)

Second, no, clipart is not allowed and just because something is royalty free does not mean its free to use in a commercial application. You still need to purcahse the rights from the rights holder, be that Adobe or someone else.

Third, Im sorry you didn't have tome to put any effort into your piece, but there's tons of artists who SACRIFICED TIME AND EFFORT to put together REAL ART and it's a slap on the face to all of them to have a knockoff like this in the fog.

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
Yourkiddingright wrote:First off no Woot has not printed any in the 6 months or more with stock art (go check on shirtwhat.com)

I count four from the past month, and several more from the dailies.

Yourkiddingright wrote:Second, no, clipart is not allowed and just because something is royalty free does not mean its free to use in a commercial application. You still need to purcahse the rights from the rights holder, be that Adobe or someone else.

I understand how rights work, and the various flavors (what is allowed and what is not), but this didn't seem the place to put it all out in longhand. I've been a musician for 30+ years now, and started learning about copyright law years ago. I've been known to be rather brutal in complying w/ music copyright laws w/ friends & family.


Yourkiddingright wrote:Third, Im sorry you didn't have tome to put any effort into your piece, but there's tons of artists who SACRAFICED TIME AND EFFORT to put together REAL ART and it's a slap on the face to all of them to have a knockoff like this in the fog.

I notice you've not published anything here, so I'll let the other artists here complain to me. I have a great amount of respect for all of them, and I've had a lot of rejections along the way (as have they), learning the shirt.woot ropes.

Regardless, I just do this for fun, and I was actually surprised this one was in the fog.

This week, I wasn't even going to enter anything, but I had an idea late last night that made me laugh, and decided to put something together to make other folks laugh, as well.

I'm sorry this has caused you irritation.

Yourkiddingright


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Yourkiddingright
lyonscc wrote:I count four from the past month, and several more from the dailies.


Please point out which ones as I guess I'm blind.

lyonscc wrote:
I understand how rights work, and the various flavors (what is allowed and what is not), but this didn't seem the place to put it all out in longhand. I've been a musician for 30+ years now, and started learning about copyright law years ago. I've been known to be rather brutal in complying w/ music copyright laws w/ friends & family.


By your comments and blatant misuse you've shown that no you don't know.

lyonscc wrote:
I notice you've not published anything here, so I'll let the other artists here complain to me. I have a great amount of respect for all of them, and I've had a lot of rejections along the way (as have they), learning the shirt.woot ropes.

Wow that's assuming quite a lot (have you heard of alts?) but then it appears your proficient at assuming things. If you don't think this doesn't piss off other "published artists" why don't you ask them. I gaurantee most aren't happy with this practice.

aleafloor


quality posts: 3 Private Messages aleafloor
Re: The Rusty Hook


"I notice you've not published anything here, so I'll let the other artists here complain to me. I have a great amount of respect for all of them, and I've had a lot of rejections along the way (as have they), learning the shirt.woot ropes. "

That is hugely condescending. Because someone doesn't submit art their opinion doesn't count? I would think that anyone who is a potential vote should count.. because it's not simply other derby submitters that are looking at your work here.
That being said...

I like the design, I think that while it's text heavy the clipart is used well. I'm not sure I'm fond of the usage of clipart as the main image focal point, but at least it does have more of a graphical element use than a lot of the other clipart seen in this particular derby. Time constraints are understandable, to a degree. The derby only opened today, there's plenty of time to get a design in and perhaps if you'd waited just a bit longer and put a little bit more of your own talent into it then it would have had a warmer reception?

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
aleafloor wrote:"I notice you've not published anything here, so I'll let the other artists here complain to me. I have a great amount of respect for all of them, and I've had a lot of rejections along the way (as have they), learning the shirt.woot ropes. "

That is hugely condescending. Because someone doesn't submit art their opinion doesn't count? I would think that anyone who is a potential vote should count.. because it's not simply other derby submitters that are looking at your work here.

I didn't intend it to be. I was just responding to someone who was obviously upset that I was somehow 'dissing' the artists here, when he/she doesn't appear to be one. I really couldn't care less if people use stock art in their work here.

If Ramy or Tater, etc. had said the same thing to me, though, I would take it much more seriously, because they are frequent submitters who know the ropes better than I do.

aleafloor wrote:
That being said...

I like the design, I think that while it's text heavy the clipart is used well. I'm not sure I'm fond of the usage of clipart as the main image focal point, but at least it does have more of a graphical element use than a lot of the other clipart seen in this particular derby. Time constraints are understandable, to a degree. The derby only opened today, there's plenty of time to get a design in and perhaps if you'd waited just a bit longer and put a little bit more of your own talent into it then it would have had a warmer reception?

I'd thought of that, as well, but I'm tied up, time-wise, from this point till Monday morning, with only a mobile device on me. I wanted to get this in, just because I wanted to have some fun (like most of the submitters here), not because I'm trying to be cutthroat.

Thank you for your suggestions, though. I do appreciate it, and I did not intend to sound condescending to YKR...

Yourkiddingright wrote:Wow that's assuming quite a lot (have you heard of alts?) but then it appears your proficient at assuming things. If you don't think this doesn't piss off other "published artists" why don't you ask them. I gaurantee most aren't happy with this practice.

I didn't think alts were allowed.

Well, if you're an artist here, you can PM me, and I'm more than happy to discuss this with you. I'm sorry I upset you.

jandk113


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jandk113
Re: The Rusty Hook


Well I love this design and I hope that it wins! I haven't bought a derby shirt in a while, if it wins I am definitely in for one!!

I ♥ WOOT!!!

crazydoglady


quality posts: 4 Private Messages crazydoglady
Re: The Rusty Hook


It looks like this derby has brought out a few trolls; a few folks who've made one purchase each and one who is just commenting (never bought a shirt). They're fairly vocal on at least one other design with the same type of complaints - I think we should ignore them.

I love puns, great design, GMV

jlc40


quality posts: 7 Private Messages jlc40
Re: The Rusty Hook


Love this. Something I would actually wear.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Ykr's criticisms, as he/she is apparently unable to spell (*sacrificed, *you're).

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

Re: The Rusty Hook


Hello folks. Just a reminder to focus on constructive and helpful criticism.

And as always, if you think there's an issue with an entry, you can use the Tattle button. That's why it's there.

THANKS!



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emulloon


quality posts: 2 Private Messages emulloon
Re: The Rusty Hook


Logged in just to give this one a vote; a personal requirement for any shirt that makes me actually lol. Very clever & nice look, I couldn't care less about the use of clip art.

tarmawolf


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tarmawolf
crazydoglady wrote:It looks like this derby has brought out a few trolls; a few folks who've made one purchase each and one who is just commenting (never bought a shirt). They're fairly vocal on at least one other design with the same type of complaints - I think we should ignore them.

I love puns, great design, GMV


Calling someone a troll for voicing their opinions, especially on multiple threads, is being just as much of a "troll" as you're accusing us of being. Being a troll is voicing an opinion specifically just to try to stir things up, which is exactly the flavor of your other posts. The so-called trolls you're accusing have been voicing their opinions of the shirts, not the artists, and have made nothing so personal as the name calling you've stooped to. Just sayin'

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
Re: The Rusty Hook


I'm not a fan of using clip art or vectors. I really wish you did take the time to draw this design and intergrated the elements more. All the elements seem floating not really providing a cohesive dynamic for the design, IMO.

As to artist's opinions on the use of clip art and vectors, you may not get their opinion on that point or on your design or others. "Why?", you may ask. As with other public arenas woot is no different when it comes to social politics. Most artists don't want to come off as jerks, calling an artist out on being lazy or stealing. They feel that they will lose a vote here and there and the public may turn against them. They want to save face and still appear to the public happy happy sunshine. But as an artist that interacts with other artists, I can tell you a majority of them don't like the use of clip art and vectors and they feel it is lazy.

This design could have been so much more if you took the extra time to pull it all together. I hope you can respect that I took the time to comment out of respect for you as an artist, because I know you can do so much better than this.

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
midgerock wrote:I'm not a fan of using clip art or vectors. I really wish you did take the time to draw this design and intergrated the elements more. All the elements seem floating not really providing a cohesive dynamic for the design, IMO.

As to artist's opinions on the use of clip art and vectors, you may not get their opinion on that point or on your design or others. "Why?", you may ask. As with other public arenas woot is no different when it comes to social politics. Most artists don't want to come off as jerks, calling an artist out on being lazy or stealing. They feel that they will lose a vote here and there and the public may turn against them. They want to save face and still appear to the public happy happy sunshine. But as an artist that interacts with other artists, I can tell you a majority of them don't like the use of clip art and vectors and they feel it is lazy.


Thanks, Midge. I understand (and I agree w/ your criticisms as well) and I wish I'd have had another hour or two in my schedule to fix them. My original border wasn't working, and my choice was between doing nothing this week or going for a crutch, and I chose the latter this time. (I'm an engineer w/ a 50-hour/week job and four kids, and this week family and work commitments ate up all but the very wee hours of the morning. Right now, I'm backstage at church, getting ready to play w/ the band for 600 people, followed by a couple more music gigs). Normally, I carve out Thursday evening to do a design (usually, but not always, from scratch).

I guess I understand why some artists won't comment, but I just didn't understand why the commenter (who didn't seem to be one) was really bent over this. I do wish I'd have had more time, but I didn't, and it was more important to me to share a funny idea than to demur for lack of time to give it the full treatment.

Thank you, sincerely, for your feedback.

This design could have been so much more if you took the extra time to pull it all together. I hope you can respect that I took the time to comment out of respect for you as an artist, because I know you can do so much better than this. [/quote]

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc

Well the formatting of that is all messed up, but I hope you get the gist of it :-)

Peace to you...

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
lyonscc wrote:Well the formatting of that is all messed up, but I hope you get the gist of it :-)

Peace to you...


;)

annieflies


quality posts: 12 Private Messages annieflies
Re: The Rusty Hook


being in the fog is the best revenge.

gmv.

oops, pardon me, i wooted

lisonallie


quality posts: 7 Private Messages lisonallie
Re: The Rusty Hook


Personally, I would buy this as a design but not as a shirt. I'm just so picky with the shirt colors ^^;. It has my vote though, first time I saw it the pun made me giggle .

mogthemoogle


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mogthemoogle
tarmawolf wrote:Calling someone a troll for voicing their opinions, especially on multiple threads, is being just as much of a "troll" as you're accusing us of being. Being a troll is voicing an opinion specifically just to try to stir things up, which is exactly the flavor of your other posts. The so-called trolls you're accusing have been voicing their opinions of the shirts, not the artists, and have made nothing so personal as the name calling you've stooped to. Just sayin'


No, there is a difference between "voicing an opinion" and being a (insert phallic reference of choice here).

If YKR had a gripe, he/she should have voiced it in a constructive manner as opposed to attacking from the get-go. It's called respect, and there is a shocking lack of it in the world these days :/

lutherann


quality posts: 2 Private Messages lutherann
mogthemoogle wrote:No, there is a difference between "voicing an opinion" and being a (insert phallic reference of choice here).

If YKR had a gripe, he/she should have voiced it in a constructive manner as opposed to attacking from the get-go. It's called respect, and there is a shocking lack of it in the world these days :/



I completely agree. It's sad when people hide behind anonymity and think that makes it ok to be rude.

vzfamily


quality posts: 0 Private Messages vzfamily
Re: The Rusty Hook


So bummed this was rejected. Loved it...

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
vzfamily wrote:So bummed this was rejected. Loved it...


Thanks. Would have been nice if they'd done it 4 days ago, as I might have had time yesterday to put together a resub. And if any Shirt.Woot mods are reading, a clarification on the clip-art policy might be nice since there are designs with it that win quite frequently...

cmillard1


quality posts: 6 Private Messages cmillard1
lyonscc wrote:Thanks. Would have been nice if they'd done it 4 days ago, as I might have had time yesterday to put together a resub. And if any Shirt.Woot mods are reading, a clarification on the clip-art policy might be nice since there are designs with it that win quite frequently...


Just curious, which recent ones?

citizencoyote


quality posts: 42 Private Messages citizencoyote
lyonscc wrote:Thanks. Would have been nice if they'd done it 4 days ago, as I might have had time yesterday to put together a resub. And if any Shirt.Woot mods are reading, a clarification on the clip-art policy might be nice since there are designs with it that win quite frequently...


Woot tends to take longer to reject shirts that fog. It's not to be mean, but to give it plenty of discussion among the inner Woot circle. That's my understanding, at least.

I would also be curious to know to what shirts you're referring using clip art. You mentioned it earlier, too.

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
cmillard1 wrote:Just curious, which recent ones?


Since it's no longer in the Reckoning, this one is probably the most blatant one, right off the top of my head...

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
lyonscc wrote:Since it's no longer in the Reckoning, this one is probably the most blatant one, right off the top of my head...

Unless it's blatant, and I mean really obvious, use of clip-art is left to the community to police. See the comments in FishBiscuit5's entry where she had to defend her original art. In some cases, an artist will slip and admit to using clip art or photo brushes while describing the design process. Rejection follows.

move along

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
j5 wrote:Unless it's blatant, and I mean really obvious, use of clip-art is left to the community to police. See the comments in FishBiscuit5's entry where she had to defend her original art. In some cases, an artist will slip and admit to using clip art or photo brushes while describing the design process. Rejection follows.


J5 - I may be wrong, but in the design I linked to, the use of stock vectors is mentioned in one of the first comments. This particular artist has a similar entry in this derby with plenty of stock images, as well.

I read the FishBiscuit thread, and see how that mistake could be made, but I see stock art all the time here. I'd just like to see what Woot's "official" policy on it is, since they seem to care sometimes and not others.

MurrayHR


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MurrayHR

For a guy with a 50 hour/week job, 4 kids, and a busy musical life you seem to have a lot of time to post on the internet.

Nevertheless, I loved your shirt and would have paid for it. I'm sorry it got rejected.

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