Derby #268: Crosshatch Rehash

Zhangjiajie Dream

Looks like text, also this looks like a filter of some kind

Rejected because: Looks like text, also this looks like a filter of some kind

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lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
Re: Zhangjiajie Dream


See wikipedia for more on my inspiration for this design. The Zhangjiajie National Forest in China is on my bucket list. It is within the pictograph for "Dream"

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
no1 wrote:text?


Pictographs aren't text.

The "no text" rule goes for any characters found on a keyboard. While there are simplified Chinese keyboards, pictographs aren't text and aren't found on their keyboards.

To think parallel to our own experience in America, if someone submitted a design that incorporated a "Peace" sign (the circle with a downward line and two forking lines), it would not be considered "text".

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
lyonscc wrote:Pictographs aren't text.

The "no text" rule goes for any characters found on a keyboard. While there are simplified Chinese keyboards, pictographs aren't text and aren't found on their keyboards.

To think parallel to our own experience in America, if someone submitted a design that incorporated a "Peace" sign (the circle with a downward line and two forking lines), it would not be considered "text".


see this rejection: http://shirt.woot.com/derby/entry/33525/firefly

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
no1 wrote:see this rejection: http://shirt.woot.com/derby/entry/33525/firefly


Ah - I may misunderstand the rule. I just understood it from Travis' explanation to be "if it's on a keyboard, it's text - which includes math symbols".

I don't know Chinese, but if the design you linked to uses simplified Chinese characters to spell out Firefly, then that would be the reason for rejection.

Pictographs, aren't really text, though. They don't have letters, and they aren't really words, either.

If it's rejected though, so be it. I wonder, then, if they ought to consider ANY symbol to be text, then - which would rule out a lot of designs that make it through the "no text" filters...

goldenthorn


quality posts: 38 Private Messages goldenthorn

Volunteer Moderator

lyonscc wrote:Ah - I may misunderstand the rule. I just understood it from Travis' explanation to be "if it's on a keyboard, it's text - which includes math symbols".

I don't know Chinese, but if the design you linked to uses simplified Chinese characters to spell out Firefly, then that would be the reason for rejection.

Pictographs, aren't really text, though. They don't have letters, and they aren't really words, either.

If it's rejected though, so be it. I wonder, then, if they ought to consider ANY symbol to be text, then - which would rule out a lot of designs that make it through the "no text" filters...


A pictogram like this IS Chinese text--it's part of the written language, just modified written characters. It's like saying that ornate Arabic calligraphy isn't text because the letters/words are nearly unrecognizable in their transformation into (usually) religious art symbols. A peace sign doesn't derive from any written language. It's an art symbol. I mean, sure, it might have some basis in some ancient Nordic runic alphabet, for all I know, but it isn't text. Comparing a peace symbol to modified modern Chinese text is like comparing the famous smiley face to graffiti signature tags. For example, in English, is this text? Yes, yes it is (for woot art purposes anyway). It's not any one letter, but it's definitely a bunch of letters put together to make a pictogram. And that pictogram is text (at woot).

Or at least that's what I think.

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
goldenthorn wrote:A pictogram like this IS Chinese text--it's part of the written language, just modified written characters. It's like saying that ornate Arabic calligraphy isn't text because the letters/words are nearly unrecognizable in their transformation into (usually) religious art symbols. A peace sign doesn't derive from any written language. It's an art symbol. I mean, sure, it might have some basis in some ancient Nordic runic alphabet, for all I know, but it isn't text. Comparing a peace symbol to modified modern Chinese text is like comparing the famous smiley face to graffiti signature tags.

Or at least that's what I think.


Goldenthorn - Here's the Wikipedia article on Pictograms. They are ideographs (whose shape is supposed to convey a cultural meaning) not alphabetical (abstract shapes that represent phonemes - spoken sounds). You bring up the famous "Smiley face" - this would be an example of an English pictograph, whose meaning has to do with happiness. You wouldn't call a smiley face "text" the same way you wouldn't call a pictograph "text".

Chinese pictographs are not utilized to make other words, they stand on their own to have meaning.

goldenthorn


quality posts: 38 Private Messages goldenthorn

Volunteer Moderator

lyonscc wrote:Goldenthorn - Here's the Wikipedia article on Pictograms. They are ideographs (whose shape is supposed to convey a cultural meaning) not alphabetical (abstract shapes that represent phonemes - spoken sounds). You bring up the famous "Smiley face" - this would be an example of an English pictograph, whose meaning has to do with happiness. You wouldn't call a smiley face "text" the same way you wouldn't call a pictograph "text".

Chinese pictographs are not utilized to make other words, they stand on their own to have meaning.


Yes, I am completely familiar with what pictograms are and are not. I've got a few languages/alphabets under my belt and have dealt with that sort of thing.

Where I am confused--and am thus questioning the validity of your entry--is the origins of your particular pictogram. You mention the forest, but either I am incredibly blind or there is no mention of this pictogram anywhere. I don't know Chinese (Mandarin in this case, right?), but parts of the language symbols are extremely close/similar to this particular pictogram. I did a very quick search and I see no mention of it anywhere in relations to this forest.

So are you saying that you completely made up this pictogram and that you just drew it to look somewhat like Chinese characters? Or that this is an existing pictogram that represents this particular forest? If the latter is the case, then how do you know that it isn't based on an amalgamation of Chinese text--making it text according to woot (when they feel like enforcing that rule)--since you aren't familiar with the Chinese language or text?

Is there a link to where the meaning/background of this particular pictogram is described?

lyonscc


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lyonscc
goldenthorn wrote:Are you saying that you completely made up this pictogram and that you just drew it to look somewhat like Chinese characters? Or that this is an existing pictogram that represents this particular forest? If the latter is the case, then how do you know that it isn't based on an amalgamation of Chinese text, since you aren't familiar with the Chinese language or text? Is there a link to where the meaning/background of this particular pictogram is described?


It's a little late (since this has been rejected), but there was a show (I think on the Discovery channel) that talked about how Chinese pictographs are created, and how they pre-date simplified Chinese writing. "Dream", "Ninja", "House" and some other common words were demonstrated (how they were made to look like what they represent). (Edit: See here)

Such is life tho.

I'll save this for a later derby...

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